Axios Asks: How Involved Was President Donald Trump With Russia? | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Axios Asks: How Involved Was President Donald Trump With Russia? | Morning Joe | MSNBC
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    FORMER TREASURY OFFICIAL AND
    FORMER TREASURY OFFICIAL AND "MORNING JOE" ECONOMIC ANALYST
    "MORNING JOE" ECONOMIC ANALYST STEVE RATTNER, ALSO CO-FOUNDER
    STEVE RATTNER, ALSO CO-FOUNDER AND CEO OF AXIOS JIM VANDEHEI.
    AND CEO OF AXIOS JIM VANDEHEI. JIM, YOUR ONE BIG THING THIS
    JIM, YOUR ONE BIG THING THIS MORNING IS WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT
    MORNING IS WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT TRUMP RUSSIA AND I ACTUALLY READ
    TRUMP RUSSIA AND I ACTUALLY READ YOUR NEWSLETTER YESTERDAY
    YOUR NEWSLETTER YESTERDAY MORNING, AS I ALWAYS DO, OF
    MORNING, AS I ALWAYS DO, OF COURSE, THERE ARE THREE THINGS
    COURSE, THERE ARE THREE THINGS THAT MY TEN-YEAR-OLD SON AND I
    THAT MY TEN-YEAR-OLD SON AND I DO EVERY SUNDAY MORNING, WE READ
    DO EVERY SUNDAY MORNING, WE READ YOUR AXIOS LIST AND OF COURSE WE
    YOUR AXIOS LIST AND OF COURSE WE GO TO CHURCH, AND THEN WE THROW
    GO TO CHURCH, AND THEN WE THROW THE BALL AROUND TALKING ABOUT
    THE BALL AROUND TALKING ABOUT THE AXIOS LIST BECAUSE -- BUT
    THE AXIOS LIST BECAUSE -- BUT YESTERDAY WAS AMAZING AND I
    YESTERDAY WAS AMAZING AND I ACTUALLY DID A THREAD WHERE I
    ACTUALLY DID A THREAD WHERE I ACTUALLY QUOTED SEVERAL OF YOUR
    ACTUALLY QUOTED SEVERAL OF YOUR TAKE A WAYS.
    TAKE A WAYS. IT WAS SO EFFECTIVE THAT
    IT WAS SO EFFECTIVE THAT ACTUALLY WIKILEAKS CAME BACK AND
    ACTUALLY WIKILEAKS CAME BACK AND ATTACKED ME FOR MAKING THESE,
    ATTACKED ME FOR MAKING THESE, WHAT THEY CLAIM, FALSE CLAIMS
    WHAT THEY CLAIM, FALSE CLAIMS WHEN, IN FACT, IT LOOKS LIKE
    WHEN, IN FACT, IT LOOKS LIKE EVERYTHING YOU GUYS NAILED DOWN
    EVERYTHING YOU GUYS NAILED DOWN ABOUT WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR IS
    ABOUT WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR IS PRETTY DAMNING FOR THE
    PRETTY DAMNING FOR THE PRESIDENT.
    PRESIDENT. >> AMAZING.
    >> AMAZING. >> WE TALK IN ANTICIPATION WITH
    >> WE TALK IN ANTICIPATION WITH WHAT MUELLER WILL HAVE IN HIS
    WHAT MUELLER WILL HAVE IN HIS REPORT AND WHAT I WAS TRYING TO
    REPORT AND WHAT I WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT IS JUST WHAT YOU KNOW
    POINT OUT IS JUST WHAT YOU KNOW IS EXTRAORDINARILY DAMNING.
    IS EXTRAORDINARILY DAMNING. LIKE WE NOW KNOW THAT MORE THAN
    LIKE WE NOW KNOW THAT MORE THAN A HALF DOZEN PEOPLE AROUND TRUMP
    A HALF DOZEN PEOPLE AROUND TRUMP HAD CONTACTS WITH THE RUSSIANS.
    HAD CONTACTS WITH THE RUSSIANS. IT WASN'T JUST A HALF DOZEN
    IT WASN'T JUST A HALF DOZEN PEOPLE, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
    PEOPLE, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HIS ELDEST SON, HIS CAMPAIGN
    HIS ELDEST SON, HIS CAMPAIGN MANAGER, HIS LAWYER AND CLOSEST
    MANAGER, HIS LAWYER AND CLOSEST BUSINESS CONFIDANT, FLYNN WHO
    BUSINESS CONFIDANT, FLYNN WHO WAS EASILY HIS TOP ADVISER
    WAS EASILY HIS TOP ADVISER THROUGHOUT THAT CAMPAIGN.
    THROUGHOUT THAT CAMPAIGN. SO IN ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HAD
    SO IN ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HAD THESE MEETINGS ENTHUSIASTICALLY,
    THESE MEETINGS ENTHUSIASTICALLY, MOST OF THEM THEN LIED ABOUT IT
    MOST OF THEM THEN LIED ABOUT IT AND NOW WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS
    AND NOW WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS BUSINESS DEALINGS, NEGOTIATIONS
    BUSINESS DEALINGS, NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON BETWEEN COHEN AND THE
    GOING ON BETWEEN COHEN AND THE KUGSS FOR A PROPERTY IN MOSCOW
    KUGSS FOR A PROPERTY IN MOSCOW THAT EVEN AFTER THAT THESE
    THAT EVEN AFTER THAT THESE CONTACTS CONTINUED, THAT THE
    CONTACTS CONTINUED, THAT THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE APPARATUS CAME
    U.S. INTELLIGENCE APPARATUS CAME TO A UNANIMOUS CONCLUSION,
    TO A UNANIMOUS CONCLUSION, EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR TRUMP SAID
    EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR TRUMP SAID UNDOUBTEDLY THE RUSSIANS WERE
    UNDOUBTEDLY THE RUSSIANS WERE TRYING TO INFLUENCE THE U.S.
    TRYING TO INFLUENCE THE U.S. ELECTION, EVEN AFTER THAT YOU
    ELECTION, EVEN AFTER THAT YOU STALE HAD A LOT OF CONTACTS
    STALE HAD A LOT OF CONTACTS BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THIS
    BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THIS ADMINISTRATION, INCLUDING JARED
    ADMINISTRATION, INCLUDING JARED KUSHNER, AT LEAST HAVING
    KUSHNER, AT LEAST HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT CREATING A
    CONVERSATIONS ABOUT CREATING A SECRET BACK CHANNEL DURING THE
    SECRET BACK CHANNEL DURING THE TRANSITION WITH THE RUSSIANS.
    TRANSITION WITH THE RUSSIANS. THEN IT CONTINUED EVEN INTO THE
    THEN IT CONTINUED EVEN INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.
    WHITE HOUSE. SO HAD WE NOT HAD THE DRIP,
    SO HAD WE NOT HAD THE DRIP, DRIP, DRIP OFFER THE LAST TWO
    DRIP, DRIP OFFER THE LAST TWO YEARS AND YOU READ ALL OF THAT
    YEARS AND YOU READ ALL OF THAT IN A STORY YOU WOULD SAY THAT IS
    IN A STORY YOU WOULD SAY THAT IS ARGUABLY THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL
    ARGUABLY THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL STORY IN MODERN PRESIDENTIAL
    STORY IN MODERN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GO
    HISTORY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO WHO IS RUSSIA?
    BACK TO WHO IS RUSSIA? IT'S AN ENEMY OF THE UNITED
    IT'S AN ENEMY OF THE UNITED STATES.
    STATES. GO BACK TO 2012, MITT ROMNEY,
    GO BACK TO 2012, MITT ROMNEY, THE NUMBER ONE GEOPOLITICAL
    THE NUMBER ONE GEOPOLITICAL THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES OF
    THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS RUSSIA AND EVERY
    AMERICA IS RUSSIA AND EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN
    SINGLE REPUBLICAN ENTHUSIASTICALLY AGREED WITH
    ENTHUSIASTICALLY AGREED WITH THAT.
    THAT. AND THAT'S WHAT'S SO STRIKING
    AND THAT'S WHAT'S SO STRIKING ABOUT WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW FROM
    ABOUT WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW FROM MUELLER AND WHAT WE KNOW IS HE
    MUELLER AND WHAT WE KNOW IS HE KNOWS A LOT MORE THAN WHAT WE
    KNOWS A LOT MORE THAN WHAT WE JUST LAID OUT THERE.
    JUST LAID OUT THERE. YOU READ THE INDICTMENTS, THE
    YOU READ THE INDICTMENTS, THE PARTS THAT AREN'T REDACTED AND
    PARTS THAT AREN'T REDACTED AND YOU KNOW HE HAS LOTS MORE, LOTS
    YOU KNOW HE HAS LOTS MORE, LOTS MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE COOPERATING,
    MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE COOPERATING, LOTS MORE INFORMATION ABOUT
    LOTS MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THOSE CONTACTS.
    THOSE CONTACTS. WHAT WE DON'T KNOW IS DID
    WHAT WE DON'T KNOW IS DID TRUMP -- HOW INVOLVED WAS HE?
    TRUMP -- HOW INVOLVED WAS HE? AND THE ONE THING I WILL SAY, I
    AND THE ONE THING I WILL SAY, I DON'T KNOW HOW INVOLVED HE WAS,
    DON'T KNOW HOW INVOLVED HE WAS, WHAT HE KNEW.
    WHAT HE KNEW. I WILL SAY THAT IN THE CAMPAIGN
    I WILL SAY THAT IN THE CAMPAIGN THROUGH THIS DAY HE KNOWS
    THROUGH THIS DAY HE KNOWS EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON.
    EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON. HE'S ALWAYS HYPER INVOLVED,
    HE'S ALWAYS HYPER INVOLVED, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THOSE
    ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THOSE INDIVIDUALS.
    INDIVIDUALS. SO THE IDEA THAT ALL OF THESE
    SO THE IDEA THAT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE ARE OPERATING ON THEIR
    PEOPLE ARE OPERATING ON THEIR OWN UNBEKNOWNST TO HIM IN A
    OWN UNBEKNOWNST TO HIM IN A TOTALLY CLEAN WAY, THAT'S THE
    TOTALLY CLEAN WAY, THAT'S THE BAR THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO
    BAR THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO CLEAR AND I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU
    CLEAR AND I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU SEE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS OVER
    SEE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS OVER THIS WEEK AND EVEN THE ONES WHO
    THIS WEEK AND EVEN THE ONES WHO LOVE HIM MOST SAYING, OH, BOY.
    LOVE HIM MOST SAYING, OH, BOY. >> YEAH.
    >> YEAH. YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT'S
    YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT'S STRANGE TWEETS OVER THE PAST
    STRANGE TWEETS OVER THE PAST SEVERAL DAYS, JOE, SUGGEST A LOT
    SEVERAL DAYS, JOE, SUGGEST A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
    OF DIFFERENT THINGS. I THINK HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT
    I THINK HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A COUNTER REPORT TO THE MUELLER
    A COUNTER REPORT TO THE MUELLER PROBE.
    PROBE. HOW CAN YOU MAKE A COUNTER
    HOW CAN YOU MAKE A COUNTER REPORT OR EVEN ALLUDE TO ONE
    REPORT OR EVEN ALLUDE TO ONE UNLESS YOU KNOW THAT IT'S
    UNLESS YOU KNOW THAT IT'S REALLY, REALLY BAD?
    REALLY, REALLY BAD? >> HE'S TALKING ABOUT A COUNTER
    >> HE'S TALKING ABOUT A COUNTER REPORT.
    REPORT. YOU REALLY CAN'T MAKE A COUNTER
    YOU REALLY CAN'T MAKE A COUNTER REPORT UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY KNOW
    REPORT UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT'S IN THE INITIAL REPORT.
    WHAT'S IN THE INITIAL REPORT. BUT IT DOES SUGGEST HOW
    BUT IT DOES SUGGEST HOW DESPERATE HE IS.
    DESPERATE HE IS. THERE IS NOT A COUNTER REPORT.
    THERE IS NOT A COUNTER REPORT. RUDY GIULIANI LATE AT NIGHT WHEN
    RUDY GIULIANI LATE AT NIGHT WHEN HE'S TALKING TO REPORTERS ADMITS
    HE'S TALKING TO REPORTERS ADMITS THERE IS NOT A COUNTER REPORT
    THERE IS NOT A COUNTER REPORT OUT THERE.
    OUT THERE. >> BUT HE'S INSINUATING IT'S
    >> BUT HE'S INSINUATING IT'S TERRIBLE WHAT THEY HAVE, MAYBE
    TERRIBLE WHAT THEY HAVE, MAYBE WHAT THEY'VE INDICATED TO HIM,
    WHAT THEY'VE INDICATED TO HIM, MAYBE THE QUESTIONS THEY HAVE
    MAYBE THE QUESTIONS THEY HAVE SENT ARE SO DAMNING THAT HE
    SENT ARE SO DAMNING THAT HE WANTS TO PROVIDE A COUNTER
    WANTS TO PROVIDE A COUNTER REPORT.
    REPORT. >> WHY ARE WE EVEN READING HIS
    >> WHY ARE WE EVEN READING HIS TWEETS?
    TWEETS? WHY ARE WE TAKING HIS TWEETS
    WHY ARE WE TAKING HIS TWEETS SERIOUSLY?
    SERIOUSLY? THEY'RE JOKES, DONNY DEUTSCH.
    THEY'RE JOKES, DONNY DEUTSCH. MY GOSH, I WILL TELL YOU WHAT
    MY GOSH, I WILL TELL YOU WHAT ELSE IS A JOKE, THE SUGGESTION
    ELSE IS A JOKE, THE SUGGESTION THAT DONALD TRUMP'S SON-IN-LAW
    THAT DONALD TRUMP'S SON-IN-LAW OR DONALD TRUMP'S OLDEST SON OR
    OR DONALD TRUMP'S OLDEST SON OR ANYBODY RELATED TO DONALD TRUMP
    ANYBODY RELATED TO DONALD TRUMP OR WORKING WITH DONALD TRUMP
    OR WORKING WITH DONALD TRUMP WOULD DO ANYTHING DURING THE
    WOULD DO ANYTHING DURING THE 2016 CAMPAIGN WITHOUT GETTING
    2016 CAMPAIGN WITHOUT GETTING DONALD TRUMP'S SIGNOFF IS AN
    DONALD TRUMP'S SIGNOFF IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE AND WHOEVER
    ABSOLUTE JOKE AND WHOEVER SUGGESTS THAT IS EITHER WHOLLY
    SUGGESTS THAT IS EITHER WHOLLY IGNORANT ABOUT HOW THAT CAMPAIGN
    IGNORANT ABOUT HOW THAT CAMPAIGN RAN FROM DAY ONE OR THEY'RE JUST
    RAN FROM DAY ONE OR THEY'RE JUST LIARS.
    LIARS. THERE IS NO THIRD CHOICE THERE.
    THERE IS NO THIRD CHOICE THERE. >> JOE, TWO POINTS, ONE TO THE
    >> JOE, TWO POINTS, ONE TO THE TWEETS, IT'S INTERESTING, HIS
    TWEETS, IT'S INTERESTING, HIS TWEETS SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR AGO
    TWEETS SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR AGO THEY WOULD COME OUT AND THE
    THEY WOULD COME OUT AND THE RESPONSE WAS ANGER AND THIS IS A
    RESPONSE WAS ANGER AND THIS IS A STRONG MAN, YOU'RE FEARFUL AND
    STRONG MAN, YOU'RE FEARFUL AND OUTRAGED.
    OUTRAGED. NOW IT'S PATHETIC.
    NOW IT'S PATHETIC. IT'S BENIGN.
    IT'S BENIGN. IT'S ALMOST -- GO SIT IN THE
    IT'S ALMOST -- GO SIT IN THE CORNER, GRANDPA.
    CORNER, GRANDPA. GO PLAY WITH YOUR LITTLE PHONE
    GO PLAY WITH YOUR LITTLE PHONE AND WE WILL GET BACK TO YOU.
    AND WE WILL GET BACK TO YOU. TO YOUR POINT, JOE, YOU HAVE
    TO YOUR POINT, JOE, YOU HAVE 100% RIGHT, IF ANYBODY HAS EVER
    100% RIGHT, IF ANYBODY HAS EVER BEEN UP TO THE TRUMP OFFICE,
    BEEN UP TO THE TRUMP OFFICE, IT'S SMALL, THE OFFICES ARE
    IT'S SMALL, THE OFFICES ARE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER.
    RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER. I WAS IN A FAMILY BUSINESS, I
    I WAS IN A FAMILY BUSINESS, I WORKED WITH MY DAD, I WORKED FOR
    WORKED WITH MY DAD, I WORKED FOR MY DAD FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS,
    MY DAD FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, WITH HE WOULD SPEAK 20, 30, 40,
    WITH HE WOULD SPEAK 20, 30, 40, 50 TIMES A DAY AND MY DAD WAS
    50 TIMES A DAY AND MY DAD WAS NOT AN AUTHORITATIVE TYPE OF
    NOT AN AUTHORITATIVE TYPE OF BOSS.
    BOSS. HIS CHILDREN WERE NOT JUST
    HIS CHILDREN WERE NOT JUST CHILDREN, THEY WERE EMPLOYEES TO
    CHILDREN, THEY WERE EMPLOYEES TO HIM.
    HIM. THERE'S NOTHING THEY DID WITHOUT
    THERE'S NOTHING THEY DID WITHOUT EITHER TRYING TO CURRY FAVOR OR
    EITHER TRYING TO CURRY FAVOR OR WITHOUT HIS ABSOLUTE DIRECTION.
    WITHOUT HIS ABSOLUTE DIRECTION. THAT WAS NOT A MOM AND POP SHOW,
    THAT WAS NOT A MOM AND POP SHOW, THAT WAS A ONE-MAN POP SHOW.
    THAT WAS A ONE-MAN POP SHOW. SO TO YOUR POINT, JOE, IT IS
    SO TO YOUR POINT, JOE, IT IS ABSURD, IT IS BEYOND THE
    ABSURD, IT IS BEYOND THE POSSIBILITY THAT ANY OF THESE
    POSSIBILITY THAT ANY OF THESE PEOPLE WHETHER IT WAS MICHAEL
    PEOPLE WHETHER IT WAS MICHAEL COHEN, WHETHER IT WAS HIS
    COHEN, WHETHER IT WAS HIS CHILDREN, ANY OF THE OTHER
    CHILDREN, ANY OF THE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE INNER CIRCLE WERE
    PEOPLE IN THE INNER CIRCLE WERE ACTING NOT ONLY WITHOUT HIM
    ACTING NOT ONLY WITHOUT HIM KNOWING BUT WITH HIS COMPLETE
    KNOWING BUT WITH HIS COMPLETE DIRECTION.
    DIRECTION. THAT IS THE WAY THAT MAN WORKED.
    THAT IS THE WAY THAT MAN WORKED. THAT IS THE WAY THAT COMPANY WAS
    THAT IS THE WAY THAT COMPANY WAS RUN.
    RUN. IMAGINE -- IF YOU ARE SITTING AT
    IMAGINE -- IF YOU ARE SITTING AT HOME RIGHT NOW, LOOK AT THE ROOM
    HOME RIGHT NOW, LOOK AT THE ROOM NEXT TO YOU BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE
    NEXT TO YOU BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE HIS CHILDREN WERE AND THAT'S
    HIS CHILDREN WERE AND THAT'S WHERE HIS CONFIDANTS WERE.
    WHERE HIS CONFIDANTS WERE. >> THEY WERE RIGHT THERE.
    >> THEY WERE RIGHT THERE. AGAIN, ANYBODY THAT EVER SAW THE
    AGAIN, ANYBODY THAT EVER SAW THE INTERACTION BETWEEN THEM DURING
    INTERACTION BETWEEN THEM DURING THE CAMPAIGN, AFTER THE CAMPAIGN
    THE CAMPAIGN, AFTER THE CAMPAIGN OR, AS YOU SAID, BEFORE THE
    OR, AS YOU SAID, BEFORE THE CAMPAIGN WHEN EVERYBODY WORKED
    CAMPAIGN WHEN EVERYBODY WORKED AT TRUMP TOWER, THEY UNDERSTOOD
    AT TRUMP TOWER, THEY UNDERSTOOD THOSE CHILDREN DID EXACTLY WHAT
    THOSE CHILDREN DID EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE TOLD BY THEIR FATHER
    THEY WERE TOLD BY THEIR FATHER AS IT PERTAINED TO BUSINESS, AS
    AS IT PERTAINED TO BUSINESS, AS IT PERTAINED TO POLITICS, AS IT
    IT PERTAINED TO POLITICS, AS IT PERTAINED TO ANYTHING.
    PERTAINED TO ANYTHING. THE THOUGHT, STEVE RATTNER, THAT
    THE THOUGHT, STEVE RATTNER, THAT DON JR. WAS GOING TO GO OFF ON
    DON JR. WAS GOING TO GO OFF ON HIS OWN AND TAKE A MEETING WITH
    HIS OWN AND TAKE A MEETING WITH RUSSIANS OR THAT JARED KUSHNER
    RUSSIANS OR THAT JARED KUSHNER WAS SOMEHOW GOING TO DO
    WAS SOMEHOW GOING TO DO SOMETHING WITHOUT DONALD TRUMP
    SOMETHING WITHOUT DONALD TRUMP KNOWING, LAUGHABLE, A JOKE.
    KNOWING, LAUGHABLE, A JOKE. THEY ALL WERE SORT OF IN FEAR OF
    THEY ALL WERE SORT OF IN FEAR OF THE GUY AND I NEVER ONCE SAW
    THE GUY AND I NEVER ONCE SAW ANYBODY TALK BACK TO HIM, NEVER
    ANYBODY TALK BACK TO HIM, NEVER ONCE SAW ANYBODY DO ANYTHING BUT
    ONCE SAW ANYBODY DO ANYTHING BUT SAY YES, SIR, NEVER ONCE SAW
    SAY YES, SIR, NEVER ONCE SAW ANYBODY DO ANYTHING EXCEPT WHAT
    ANYBODY DO ANYTHING EXCEPT WHAT DONALD TRUMP TOLD THEM EXACTLY,
    DONALD TRUMP TOLD THEM EXACTLY, YOU KNOW -- HE WOULD TELL THEM
    YOU KNOW -- HE WOULD TELL THEM EXACTLY WHAT TO DO AND THIS HE
    EXACTLY WHAT TO DO AND THIS HE WOULD DO IT.
    WOULD DO IT. THERE WAS NO SNEAKING ANYTHING
    THERE WAS NO SNEAKING ANYTHING PAST HIM.
    PAST HIM. >> NO I THINK WHAT DONNY SAID
    >> NO I THINK WHAT DONNY SAID ABOUT THE WAY THE TRUMP
    ABOUT THE WAY THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION RAN IS EXACTLY
    ORGANIZATION RAN IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
    RIGHT. DONALD TRUMP WE KNOW IS A
    DONALD TRUMP WE KNOW IS A MICROMANAGER, HE NEEDS TO KNOW
    MICROMANAGER, HE NEEDS TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON,
    EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON, WANTS TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT'S
    WANTS TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON, AND WE EVEN HAVE, AT
    GOING ON, AND WE EVEN HAVE, AT LEAST AT THE MOMENT,
    LEAST AT THE MOMENT, CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE OF THIS,
    CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE OF THIS, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WERE THE
    FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WERE THE CALLS FROM DONALD TRUMP JR.'S
    CALLS FROM DONALD TRUMP JR.'S CELLPHONE TO A BLOCKED NUMBER
    CELLPHONE TO A BLOCKED NUMBER BEFORE AND AFTER THE JULY 16th
    BEFORE AND AFTER THE JULY 16th MEETING.
    MEETING. MAYBE WE WILL FIND OUT, MAYBE
    MAYBE WE WILL FIND OUT, MAYBE MUELLER CAN FIND OUT EXACTLY WHO
    MUELLER CAN FIND OUT EXACTLY WHO THOSE CALLS WERE TO, BUT I THINK
    THOSE CALLS WERE TO, BUT I THINK WE ALL HAVE OUR SUSPICIONS.
    WE ALL HAVE OUR SUSPICIONS. IT WAS THE NOT SO ELLIPTICAL
    IT WAS THE NOT SO ELLIPTICAL FAIRLY CLEAR REMARKS THAT TRUMP
    FAIRLY CLEAR REMARKS THAT TRUMP MADE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AFTER
    MADE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AFTER THAT MEETING BEFORE THE
    THAT MEETING BEFORE THE WIKILEAKS LEAK OCCURRED THAT
    WIKILEAKS LEAK OCCURRED THAT SUGGESTED HE KNEW SOMETHING.
    SUGGESTED HE KNEW SOMETHING. THERE'S EVIDENCE ALL OVER THE
    THERE'S EVIDENCE ALL OVER THE PLACE THAT YOU GETTED HE KNEW
    PLACE THAT YOU GETTED HE KNEW THIS.
    THIS. THE QUESTION IS WHAT'S GOING TO
    THE QUESTION IS WHAT'S GOING TO COME OF IT?
    COME OF IT? IS IT GOING TO BE ENOUGH FOR
    IS IT GOING TO BE ENOUGH FOR MUELLER TO PUT TOGETHER INTO A
    MUELLER TO PUT TOGETHER INTO A PACKAGE THAT WILL START TO TURN
    PACKAGE THAT WILL START TO TURN THE TIDE AMONG REPUBLICANS WHO
    THE TIDE AMONG REPUBLICANS WHO SO FAR HAVE BEEN QUITE STEADFAST
    SO FAR HAVE BEEN QUITE STEADFAST IN AT LEAST THEIR PROFESSED
    IN AT LEAST THEIR PROFESSED OPEN-MINDEDNESS ON THIS ISSUE,
    OPEN-MINDEDNESS ON THIS ISSUE, BUT CERTAINLY NOT TURNED AGAINST
    BUT CERTAINLY NOT TURNED AGAINST TRUMP.
    TRUMP. >> STEVE, LET'S TALK ABOUT --
    >> STEVE, LET'S TALK ABOUT -- LET'S MOVE FROM RUSSIA AND THE
    LET'S MOVE FROM RUSSIA AND THE MUELLER PROBE TO WHAT'S
    MUELLER PROBE TO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE SOUTHERN
    HAPPENING IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK.
    DISTRICT OF NEW YORK. THAT PROSECUTION THAT'S ONGOING,
    THAT PROSECUTION THAT'S ONGOING, AS WELL AS THE INVESTIGATION
    AS WELL AS THE INVESTIGATION THAT IS ONGOING AS WELL.
    THAT IS ONGOING AS WELL. WE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT ANDY
    WE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT ANDY McCARTHY, SUGGESTING ON FOX NEWS
    McCARTHY, SUGGESTING ON FOX NEWS THAT DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO
    THAT DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO GET INDICTED.
    GET INDICTED. YOU SEE HIS VERY CLEAR
    YOU SEE HIS VERY CLEAR STATEMENT, WHICH IS ALSO THE LAW
    STATEMENT, WHICH IS ALSO THE LAW OF THE LAND, THE FEDERAL LAW,
    OF THE LAND, THE FEDERAL LAW, WHICH IS IF YOU DIRECT SOMEBODY
    WHICH IS IF YOU DIRECT SOMEBODY TO MAKE AN ILLEGAL CAMPAIGN
    TO MAKE AN ILLEGAL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION, THAT IS A FELONY,
    CONTRIBUTION, THAT IS A FELONY, EVEN IN THE STATE OF KENTUCKY,
    EVEN IN THE STATE OF KENTUCKY, RAND PAUL, THAT IS A FEDERAL
    RAND PAUL, THAT IS A FEDERAL FELONY.
    FELONY. THEN YOU TAKE IT THE NEXT STEP
    THEN YOU TAKE IT THE NEXT STEP AND SEE HOW MUCH -- I WILL READ
    AND SEE HOW MUCH -- I WILL READ WHAT ANDY McCARTHY SAID, AS
    WHAT ANDY McCARTHY SAID, AS WE'VE JUST SEEN IT IS A FELONY
    WE'VE JUST SEEN IT IS A FELONY TO CAUSE ANOTHER PERSON TO MAKE
    TO CAUSE ANOTHER PERSON TO MAKE AN ILLEGAL CONTRIBUTION.
    AN ILLEGAL CONTRIBUTION. A FEDERAL FELONY.
    A FEDERAL FELONY. AND THEN, OF COURSE, YOU LOOK AT
    AND THEN, OF COURSE, YOU LOOK AT THE PAINSTAKING WAY DONALD TRUMP
    THE PAINSTAKING WAY DONALD TRUMP WENT -- HOW FAR OUT OF HIS WAY
    WENT -- HOW FAR OUT OF HIS WAY DONALD TRUMP WENT TO HIDE THOSE
    DONALD TRUMP WENT TO HIDE THOSE ILLEGAL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS
    ILLEGAL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS AND TO DIRECT THEM.
    AND TO DIRECT THEM. IT SHOWS HIS INTENT.
    IT SHOWS HIS INTENT. AND THEN I WANT TO GET TO THE
    AND THEN I WANT TO GET TO THE THIRD POINT HERE WHICH IS IT
    THIRD POINT HERE WHICH IS IT WASN'T JUST A CLERICAL ERROR.
    WASN'T JUST A CLERICAL ERROR. THIS ACTUALLY WAS AN
    THIS ACTUALLY WAS AN EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT
    EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT ILLEGAL ACT WHICH ACTUALLY MAY
    ILLEGAL ACT WHICH ACTUALLY MAY HAVE SWAYED THE ELECTION, MOST
    HAVE SWAYED THE ELECTION, MOST LIKELY SWAYED THE ELECTION
    LIKELY SWAYED THE ELECTION BECAUSE YOU WERE FOLLOWING THE
    BECAUSE YOU WERE FOLLOWING THE CAMPAIGN CLOSELY, OBVIOUSLY WITH
    CAMPAIGN CLOSELY, OBVIOUSLY WITH THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN.
    THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN. WHAT WOULD THE IMPACT HAVE BEEN
    WHAT WOULD THE IMPACT HAVE BEEN IF A PORN STAR AND A PLAYBOY
    IF A PORN STAR AND A PLAYBOY BUNNY HAD COME OUT THAT LAST
    BUNNY HAD COME OUT THAT LAST WEEK AND TALKED ABOUT THEIR
    WEEK AND TALKED ABOUT THEIR AFFAIRS WITH DONALD TRUMP IN
    AFFAIRS WITH DONALD TRUMP IN 2006 RIGHT AFTER HE WAS MARRIED
    2006 RIGHT AFTER HE WAS MARRIED AND WHEN HIS WIFE WAS PREGNANT?
    AND WHEN HIS WIFE WAS PREGNANT? >> WELL, I THINK WE ALL KNOW
    >> WELL, I THINK WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE IMPACT OF WHAT WOULD
    WHAT THE IMPACT OF WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE ELECTION, WHICH
    HAVE BEEN ON THE ELECTION, WHICH WAS ULTIMATELY DECIDED BY A
    WAS ULTIMATELY DECIDED BY A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER, 74,000
    RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER, 74,000 VOTES OR WHATEVER IN A FEW UPPER
    VOTES OR WHATEVER IN A FEW UPPER MIDWEST STATES, CERTAINLY
    MIDWEST STATES, CERTAINLY SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAVE
    SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAVE EASILY MADE THE DIFFERENCE.
    EASILY MADE THE DIFFERENCE. LOOK, I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO BE
    LOOK, I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE IS WHAT OTHER
    INTERESTING TO SEE IS WHAT OTHER EVIDENCE THE SDNY HAS ON THIS.
    EVIDENCE THE SDNY HAS ON THIS. THEIR LANGUAGE IN THE FILINGS ON
    THEIR LANGUAGE IN THE FILINGS ON FRIDAY WAS INCREDIBLY STARK AND
    FRIDAY WAS INCREDIBLY STARK AND DEFINITIVE AND CLEAR THAT
    DEFINITIVE AND CLEAR THAT SUGGESTED THAT THEY HAVE MORE
    SUGGESTED THAT THEY HAVE MORE THAN SIMPLY MICHAEL COHEN SAID
    THAN SIMPLY MICHAEL COHEN SAID THIS HAPPENED SO TRUMP CAN SAY
    THIS HAPPENED SO TRUMP CAN SAY THAT HAPPENED AND WE GET INTO A
    THAT HAPPENED AND WE GET INTO A HE SAID, HE SAID KIND OF
    HE SAID, HE SAID KIND OF SITUATION.
    SITUATION. WHAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED HERE
    WHAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED HERE GIVEN TRUMP'S BASE AND THE PUSH
    GIVEN TRUMP'S BASE AND THE PUSH BACK FROM TRUMP'S MEGAPHONE IS
    BACK FROM TRUMP'S MEGAPHONE IS GOING TO BE CLEAR AND
    GOING TO BE CLEAR AND UNEQUIVOCAL PROOF.
    UNEQUIVOCAL PROOF. THEN THE NEXT QUESTION WHICH I
    THEN THE NEXT QUESTION WHICH I HEARD YOU DISCUSSING EARLIER IS
    HEARD YOU DISCUSSING EARLIER IS SHOULD TRUMP GET INDICTED OR
    SHOULD TRUMP GET INDICTED OR NOT?
    NOT? WE ALL KNOW THE ISSUES AROUND
    WE ALL KNOW THE ISSUES AROUND THAT, THERE'S STATUTES OF
    THAT, THERE'S STATUTES OF LIMITATIONS ISSUES.
    LIMITATIONS ISSUES. THERE SEEMS TO BE, I THINK, AN
    THERE SEEMS TO BE, I THINK, AN OPENING TO INDICT A SITTING
    OPENING TO INDICT A SITTING PRESIDENT THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO
    PRESIDENT THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE AGAINST THE LAW, WHETHER YOU
    BE AGAINST THE LAW, WHETHER YOU PROSECUTE HIM OR NOT IS ANOTHER
    PROSECUTE HIM OR NOT IS ANOTHER QUESTION.
    QUESTION. THEN YOU GET TO THE MEGA
    THEN YOU GET TO THE MEGA QUESTION OF DOES THIS RISE TO
    QUESTION OF DOES THIS RISE TO THE LEVEL OF BEING AN
    THE LEVEL OF BEING AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE AND A LOT OF
    IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD OBVIOUSLY FEEL IT
    PEOPLE WOULD OBVIOUSLY FEEL IT DOES, THERE ARE OTHERS WHO FEEL
    DOES, THERE ARE OTHERS WHO FEEL THAT WE SHOULD HAVE AN
    THAT WE SHOULD HAVE AN INCREDIBLY HIGH STANDARD FOR
    INCREDIBLY HIGH STANDARD FOR IMPEACHMENT, THAT WE SHOULD NOT
    IMPEACHMENT, THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE GETTING RID OF PRESIDENTS
    BE GETTING RID OF PRESIDENTS LIGHTLY, EVEN ONES WHO HAVE
    LIGHTLY, EVEN ONES WHO HAVE BROKEN THE LAW AND THAT THOSE
    BROKEN THE LAW AND THAT THOSE CAN BE TWO SOMEWHAT SEPARATE
    CAN BE TWO SOMEWHAT SEPARATE ISSUES.
    ISSUES. >> YOU KNOW, THE IMPORTANT THING
    >> YOU KNOW, THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER, MIKA, AS WE'RE
    TO REMEMBER, MIKA, AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER YOU CAN
    TALKING ABOUT WHETHER YOU CAN INDICT A PRESIDENT OR NOT IS
    INDICT A PRESIDENT OR NOT IS WHAT JOYCE VANCE JUST SAID.
    WHAT JOYCE VANCE JUST SAID. IF THE INDICTMENT PERTAINS TO
    IF THE INDICTMENT PERTAINS TO ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES THAT GOT YOU
    ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES THAT GOT YOU ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
    ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OR MAY HAVE NOT YOU
    STATES OR MAY HAVE NOT YOU ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
    ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THEN THE SUPREME COURT
    STATES, THEN THE SUPREME COURT HAS TO LOOK AT THAT DIFFERENTLY
    HAS TO LOOK AT THAT DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE IF YOU ARE WILLING TO
    BECAUSE IF YOU ARE WILLING TO SAY THAT A PRESIDENT CANNOT BE
    SAY THAT A PRESIDENT CANNOT BE INDICTED AND THAT PRESIDENT IS
    INDICTED AND THAT PRESIDENT IS PRESIDENT ONLY BECAUSE OF
    PRESIDENT ONLY BECAUSE OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES --
    ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES -- >> RIGHT.
    >> RIGHT. >> -- THEN SUDDENLY YOU REALLY
    >> -- THEN SUDDENLY YOU REALLY DO, RAND PAUL -- THIS IS WHERE
    DO, RAND PAUL -- THIS IS WHERE THE BANANA REPUBLIC PART COMES
    THE BANANA REPUBLIC PART COMES IN.
    IN. THEN IT BECOMES IS BANANA
    THEN IT BECOMES IS BANANA REPUBLIC WHERE SOMEBODY
    REPUBLIC WHERE SOMEBODY COMMITTING ILLEGAL ACTS SAY I
    COMMITTING ILLEGAL ACTS SAY I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT TO DO, I
    CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT TO DO, I CAN COMMIT WHATEVER FELONIES I
    CAN COMMIT WHATEVER FELONIES I WANT TO COMMIT AS LONG AS I GET
    WANT TO COMMIT AS LONG AS I GET ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
    ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES THEY CANNOT INDICT ME.
    STATES THEY CANNOT INDICT ME. THAT IS NOT AN AMERICAN
    THAT IS NOT AN AMERICAN PRINCIPLE.
    PRINCIPLE. MIKA, THE AMERICAN PRINCIPLE IS,
    MIKA, THE AMERICAN PRINCIPLE IS, NO MAN IS ABOVE THE LAW.
    NO MAN IS ABOVE THE LAW. NO WOMAN IS ABOVE THE LAW.
    NO WOMAN IS ABOVE THE LAW. THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE THIS
    THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE THIS SUPREME COURT IF FACED WITH THIS
    SUPREME COURT IF FACED WITH THIS QUESTION, I THINK THEY ARE GOING
    QUESTION, I THINK THEY ARE GOING TO BE FACED WITH THIS QUESTION,
    TO BE FACED WITH THIS QUESTION, ULTIMATELY WILL HAVE TO DECIDE
    ULTIMATELY WILL HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT THIS PRESIDENT HAS TO BE
    WHAT THIS PRESIDENT HAS TO BE INDICTED BECAUSE OF THE
    INDICTED BECAUSE OF THE CONNECTION WITH THE CRIMES WHICH
    CONNECTION WITH THE CRIMES WHICH ACTUALLY HELPED HIM GET ELECTED.
    ACTUALLY HELPED HIM GET ELECTED. >> AND OR MUELLER COULD BE
    >> AND OR MUELLER COULD BE PROVIDING CONGRESS WITH A CLEAR
    PROVIDING CONGRESS WITH A CLEAR ROADMAP TOWARD IMPEACHMENT.
    ROADMAP TOWARD IMPEACHMENT. JIM VANDEHEI, THANK YOU VERY
    JIM VANDEHEI, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
    MUCH. >>> STILL AHEAD, IT'S BEEN
    >>> STILL AHEAD, IT'S BEEN ALMOST TWO YEARS SINCE PRESIDENT
    ALMOST TWO YEARS SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS SWORN INTO OFFICE AND
    TRUMP WAS SWORN INTO OFFICE AND SO FAR HE'S COMING UP SHORT ON
    SO FAR HE'S COMING UP SHORT ON TWO OF HIS BIGGEST ECONOMIC
    TWO OF HIS BIGGEST ECONOMIC GOALS.
    GOALS. STEVE RATTNER HAS SOME CHARTS ON
    STEVE RATTNER HAS SOME CHARTS ON THAT COMING UP ON "MORNING JOE."
    THAT COMING UP ON "MORNING JOE." >> WE SHOULD NOT HAVE SPECIAL
    >> WE SHOULD NOT HAVE SPECIAL PROSECUTORS GOING AFTER ONE
    PROSECUTORS GOING AFTER ONE PERSON AND IF WE GET THIS WAY,
    PERSON AND IF WE GET THIS WAY, AND IF WE ARE GOING TO PROSECUTE
    AND IF WE ARE GOING TO PROSECUTE PEOPLE AND PUT THEM IN JAIL FOR
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