Inside The Courtroom: Jury Finds Paul Manafort Guilty On 8 Counts | MTP Daily | MSNBC

Inside The Courtroom: Jury Finds Paul Manafort Guilty On 8 Counts | MTP Daily | MSNBC
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    FORMER PROSECUTOR, D.O.J.'S TAX DIVISION.
    DIVISION. POINT IS WE'VE GOT THIS COVERED
    POINT IS WE'VE GOT THIS COVERED FROM SO MANY DIFFERENT ANGLES
    FROM SO MANY DIFFERENT ANGLES BUT LET'S BEGIN WITH KEN
    BUT LET'S BEGIN WITH KEN DILANIAN.
    DILANIAN. KERNGS EIGHT COUNTS GUILTY, TEN
    KERNGS EIGHT COUNTS GUILTY, TEN COUNTS MISTRIAL.
    COUNTS MISTRIAL. WALK ME THROUGH WHAT MORE DO WE
    WALK ME THROUGH WHAT MORE DO WE HAVE ON THE TEN COUNTS THAT
    HAVE ON THE TEN COUNTS THAT THERE WASN'T A CONSENSUS AND
    THERE WASN'T A CONSENSUS AND WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT?
    WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT? >> WELL, FIRST, I'LL TELL YOU
    >> WELL, FIRST, I'LL TELL YOU CHUCK THAT PAUL MANAFORT SHOWED
    CHUCK THAT PAUL MANAFORT SHOWED NO REACTION.
    NO REACTION. HE WAS STONE-FACED.
    HE WAS STONE-FACED. NOR DID HIS WIFE, AFTER THE
    NOR DID HIS WIFE, AFTER THE VERDICT.
    VERDICT. PROSECUTORS SHOOK HANDS WITH ONE
    PROSECUTORS SHOOK HANDS WITH ONE ANOTHER AND THE JUDGE ADMONISHED
    ANOTHER AND THE JUDGE ADMONISHED THE JURY THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE
    THE JURY THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE TO TALK TO THE PRESS IN THE WAKE
    TO TALK TO THE PRESS IN THE WAKE OF THERE VERDICT.
    OF THERE VERDICT. PROSECUTORS GOT A LITTLE OF
    PROSECUTORS GOT A LITTLE OF EVERYTHING HERE.
    EVERYTHING HERE. NOT A 100% VICTORY FOR THE
    NOT A 100% VICTORY FOR THE PROSECUTION BUT THEY GOT FIVE
    PROSECUTION BUT THEY GOT FIVE COUNTS OF TAX FRAUD, THEY GOT
    COUNTS OF TAX FRAUD, THEY GOT ONE COUNT OF FAILING TO FILE A
    ONE COUNT OF FAILING TO FILE A FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT REPORT, AND
    FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT REPORT, AND TWO COUNTS OF FRANK FRAUD, ANDBA
    TWO COUNTS OF FRANK FRAUD, ANDBA APPEARED THAT THE JURY WENT
    APPEARED THAT THE JURY WENT THROUGH METICULOUSLY THROUGH THE
    THROUGH METICULOUSLY THROUGH THE EVIDENCE AND THEY LATCHED ON TO
    EVIDENCE AND THEY LATCHED ON TO TWO OF THE STRONGER BANK FRAUD
    TWO OF THE STRONGER BANK FRAUD CHARGES WHERE THERE ARE
    CHARGES WHERE THERE ARE DOCUMENTABLE LIES.
    DOCUMENTABLE LIES. IN ONE CASE PAUL MANAFORT
    IN ONE CASE PAUL MANAFORT DOCTORED A PROFIT AND LOSS
    DOCTORED A PROFIT AND LOSS STATEMENT TO DEFRAUD A BANK TO
    STATEMENT TO DEFRAUD A BANK TO GET LOANS AT A TIME WHEN HE WAS
    GET LOANS AT A TIME WHEN HE WAS BADLY IN NEED OF QUASH.
    BADLY IN NEED OF QUASH. THIS JURY WAS SUPER THOUGHTFUL
    THIS JURY WAS SUPER THOUGHTFUL IT APPEARS IN THEIR
    IT APPEARS IN THEIR DELIBERATIONS AND EARLIER TODAY
    DELIBERATIONS AND EARLIER TODAY THEY TOLD THE JUDGE THEY WERE
    THEY TOLD THE JUDGE THEY WERE UNABLE TO REACH CONSENSUS ON A
    UNABLE TO REACH CONSENSUS ON A NUMBER OF COUNTS.
    NUMBER OF COUNTS. THE JUDGE ASKED THEM TO GO BACK
    THE JUDGE ASKED THEM TO GO BACK AND DELIBERATE THEY TRIED FOR
    AND DELIBERATE THEY TRIED FOR ABOUT FOUR HOURS WERE UNABLE TO
    ABOUT FOUR HOURS WERE UNABLE TO DO IT AND SO THE JUDGE DECLARED
    DO IT AND SO THE JUDGE DECLARED A MISTRIAL.
    A MISTRIAL. THE GOVERNMENT CAN TRY PAUL MAN
    THE GOVERNMENT CAN TRY PAUL MAN FRLT ON THE TEN COUNTS.
    FRLT ON THE TEN COUNTS. HE'S FACING AS YOU KNOW, ANOTHER
    HE'S FACING AS YOU KNOW, ANOTHER TRIAL IN WASHINGTON, D.C. NEXT
    TRIAL IN WASHINGTON, D.C. NEXT MONTH THAT CARRIES EVEN MORE
    MONTH THAT CARRIES EVEN MORE PRISON TIME.
    PRISON TIME. >> DANIEL GOLDMAN, I'LL GO TO
    >> DANIEL GOLDMAN, I'LL GO TO YOU, AND NOT JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE
    YOU, AND NOT JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE STANDING NEXT TO KEN.
    STANDING NEXT TO KEN. EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.
    EXPLAIN THIS TO ME. IF YOU'RE THE PROSECUTOR ARE YOU
    IF YOU'RE THE PROSECUTOR ARE YOU HAPPY?
    HAPPY? DOES THIS FEEL LIKE A SOLID WIN?
    DOES THIS FEEL LIKE A SOLID WIN? >> LOOK, IT'S NOT A RESOUNDING
    >> LOOK, IT'S NOT A RESOUNDING VICTORY BUT IT IS A DEFINITE
    VICTORY BUT IT IS A DEFINITE VICTORY AND IN PARTICULAR FOR
    VICTORY AND IN PARTICULAR FOR THE REASON KEN SAID.
    THE REASON KEN SAID. BECAUSE THE JURY SOMEWHAT
    BECAUSE THE JURY SOMEWHAT UNUSUALLY AND ATYPICALLY PICKED
    UNUSUALLY AND ATYPICALLY PICKED AND CHOSE AMONG THE DIFFERENT
    AND CHOSE AMONG THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CHARGES WHAT THEY
    TYPES OF CHARGES WHAT THEY CONVICTED HIM OF, THE
    CONVICTED HIM OF, THE PROSECUTION WILL BE ABLE TO
    PROSECUTION WILL BE ABLE TO ARGUE THAT THE SENTENCING JUDGE
    ARGUE THAT THE SENTENCING JUDGE HERE SHOULD CONSIDER ALL OF THE
    HERE SHOULD CONSIDER ALL OF THE CONDUCT THAT HE WAS CHARGED WITH
    CONDUCT THAT HE WAS CHARGED WITH BECAUSE THERE'S A LESSER
    BECAUSE THERE'S A LESSER STANDARD.
    STANDARD. SO FROM THE PROSECUTION'S
    SO FROM THE PROSECUTION'S STANDPOINT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE
    STANDPOINT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE SOME BANK FRAUD CHARGES OF WHICH
    SOME BANK FRAUD CHARGES OF WHICH HE WAS CONVICTED, SOME FOREIGN
    HE WAS CONVICTED, SOME FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT REPORTS, AND HE GOT
    BANK ACCOUNT REPORTS, AND HE GOT ALL THE TAX FRAUD.
    ALL THE TAX FRAUD. SO THE FACT THAT THEY DRIBBLED
    SO THE FACT THAT THEY DRIBBLED IT THROUGH THE INDICTMENT IS
    IT THROUGH THE INDICTMENT IS ACTUALLY HELPFUL TO THE
    ACTUALLY HELPFUL TO THE PROSECUTION AND ALSO SHOWS THAT
    PROSECUTION AND ALSO SHOWS THAT IN EACH OF THEIR DIFFERENT
    IN EACH OF THEIR DIFFERENT GROUPS OF CHARGES THAT THEY WERE
    GROUPS OF CHARGES THAT THEY WERE JUSTIFIED AND THEY WERE
    JUSTIFIED AND THEY WERE LEGITIMATE BECAUSE THE JURY
    LEGITIMATE BECAUSE THE JURY CONVICTED ON AT LEAST SOME OF
    CONVICTED ON AT LEAST SOME OF THEM.
    THEM. >> KEN, DO WE HAVE A SENSE ON
    >> KEN, DO WE HAVE A SENSE ON THE OTHER TEN?
    THE OTHER TEN? WAS IT 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, 6-6?
    WAS IT 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, 6-6? WHAT KIND OF -- DO WE HAVE A
    WHAT KIND OF -- DO WE HAVE A SENSE ON THE OTHER TEN IF IT WAS
    SENSE ON THE OTHER TEN IF IT WAS MOST OF THEM WERE LEANING ONE
    MOST OF THEM WERE LEANING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER?
    THAT HAPPEN?
    THAT HAPPEN? >> I DEFER TO MY LEGAL EXPERT.
    >> I DEFER TO MY LEGAL EXPERT. >> I RAN OUT OF THE -- THEY SET
    >> I RAN OUT OF THE -- THEY SET A DATE.
    A DATE. I THINK IT WOULD NORMALLY BE IN
    I THINK IT WOULD NORMALLY BE IN ABOUT THREE MONTHS.
    ABOUT THREE MONTHS. I KNOW THEY DID SET A DATE AND
    I KNOW THEY DID SET A DATE AND WE'LL GET THAT FOR YOU IN A
    WE'LL GET THAT FOR YOU IN A MINUTE, CHUCK.
    MINUTE, CHUCK. WE JUST RAN OUT OF THE
    WE JUST RAN OUT OF THE COURTROOM.
    COURTROOM. >> WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM -- THE
    >> WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM -- THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES.
    SENTENCING GUIDELINES. WE HAVE EIGHT COUNTS HERE.
    WE HAVE EIGHT COUNTS HERE. IF THE MAX WAS HIT ON ALL OF
    IF THE MAX WAS HIT ON ALL OF THEM, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT
    THEM, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT HERE?
    HERE? >> SO I WAS TRYING TO DO I ROUGH
    >> SO I WAS TRYING TO DO I ROUGH ROUGH CALCULATION WITH KEN HERE.
    ROUGH CALCULATION WITH KEN HERE. IF HE WAS CONVICTED OF
    IF HE WAS CONVICTED OF EVERYTHING, THE BEST CALCULATION
    EVERYTHING, THE BEST CALCULATION FOR THE PROSECUTION WOULD BE
    FOR THE PROSECUTION WOULD BE ABOUT 11 TO 14 MONTHS -- SORRY,
    ABOUT 11 TO 14 MONTHS -- SORRY, 11 TO 14 YEARS.
    11 TO 14 YEARS. >> ON EACH COUNT?
    >> ON EACH COUNT? >> NO, TOTAL.
    >> NO, TOTAL. >> OKAY.
    >> OKAY. >> THE WAY THE SENTENCING
    >> THE WAY THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES WORK IS THEY GROUP
    GUIDELINES WORK IS THEY GROUP ALL THE COUNTS TOGETHER SO THERE
    ALL THE COUNTS TOGETHER SO THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE GUIDELINE RANGE
    WILL ONLY BE ONE GUIDELINE RANGE FOR THE WHOLE INDICTMENT.
    FOR THE WHOLE INDICTMENT. AND THE WAY I ROUGHLY CALCULATED
    AND THE WAY I ROUGHLY CALCULATED IT IS THAT FOR EVERYTHING HE WAS
    IT IS THAT FOR EVERYTHING HE WAS SUSCEPTIBLE TO HERE IT WOULD BE
    SUSCEPTIBLE TO HERE IT WOULD BE 11 TO 14 YEARS.
    11 TO 14 YEARS. THE PROSECUTION WILL ARGUE THAT.
    THE PROSECUTION WILL ARGUE THAT. IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE COUNTS
    IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE COUNTS OF CONVICTION, MY ROUGH ESTIMATE
    OF CONVICTION, MY ROUGH ESTIMATE IS ABOUT SEVEN TO NINE YEARS.
    IS ABOUT SEVEN TO NINE YEARS. THAT THE GUIDELINE RANGE WOULD
    THAT THE GUIDELINE RANGE WOULD BE.
    BE. AND THEN THE JUDGE IS FREE TO
    AND THEN THE JUDGE IS FREE TO VARY FROM THAT HOW HE WISHES.
    VARY FROM THAT HOW HE WISHES. AND OFTEN IN WHITE COLLAR CASES
    AND OFTEN IN WHITE COLLAR CASES JUDGES GO BELOW THE GUIDELINES.
    JUDGES GO BELOW THE GUIDELINES. >> AND CHUCK, I DON'T HAVE TO
    >> AND CHUCK, I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU THE BIG QUESTION NOW IS
    TELL YOU THE BIG QUESTION NOW IS OBVIOUSLY LOOKING AT WHAT
    OBVIOUSLY LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENED WITH MICHAEL COHEN
    HAPPENED WITH MICHAEL COHEN TODAY WHAT WILL PAUL MANAFORT
    TODAY WHAT WILL PAUL MANAFORT DO?
    DO? WILL HE CONTINUE TO FIGHT THIS
    WILL HE CONTINUE TO FIGHT THIS CASE?
    CASE? THIS LEGAL DEFENSE MUST BE
    THIS LEGAL DEFENSE MUST BE COSTING HIM MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
    COSTING HIM MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. WILL HE GO FORWARD WITH A TRIAL
    WILL HE GO FORWARD WITH A TRIAL IN WASHINGTON, D.C. WHERE THE
    IN WASHINGTON, D.C. WHERE THE PENALTIES ARE EVEN HIGHER, THE
    PENALTIES ARE EVEN HIGHER, THE EVIDENCE IS EVEN MORE VOLUME
    EVIDENCE IS EVEN MORE VOLUME NOUS, OR WILL HE CUT HIS LOSSES,
    NOUS, OR WILL HE CUT HIS LOSSES, CUT A DEAL AND TELL WHAT HE
    CUT A DEAL AND TELL WHAT HE KNOWS IF ANYTHING ABOUT
    KNOWS IF ANYTHING ABOUT POTENTIAL COLLUSION BETWEEN
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