Donna Brazile On Her New Book 'Hacks': DNC Not Rigged But There Was A Cancer | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Donna Brazile On Her New Book 'Hacks': DNC Not Rigged But There Was A Cancer | Morning Joe | MSNBC
    >>> JOINING US NOW, FORMER DNC CHAIR, DONNA BRAZILE.
    SHE'S OUT WITH A NEW BOOK, YOU MAY HAVE HEARD, CALLED "HACKS."
    WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE BOOK IN DEPTH IN A MOMENT.
    WE WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHAT WE SAW LAST NIGHT, STATE OF
    VIRGINIA, MAINE, NEW JERSEY. HERE IN NEW YORK CITY.
    >> ALL THE SEATS THAT WERE FLIPPED LAST NIGHT.
    TO QUOTE THE GODFATHER OF SOUL, I FEEL GOOD.
    JAMES BROWN. I FEEL GOOD BECAUSE FOR THE
    FIRST TIME IN TWO ELECTION CYCLES, ESPECIALLY OFF-YEAR
    ELECTION CYCLES, DEMOCRATS ARE HOLDING THEIR OWN.
    THIS WAS A BLUE WAVE. THIS WAS NOT JUST A NATIONAL
    PARTY INVESTED IN DOWN BALLOT RACES.
    THIS WAS GRASSROOTS DEMOCRATS AND I AM TAKING BACK MY CITY
    COUNCIL. I AM TAKING BACK MY SHERIFF
    SEAT, MY STATE DELEGATE SEAT. YOU'LL LIKE THIS, JOHN.
    I CAME DOWN FROM BOSTON, MIKA, AND I WENT DOWN TO NORTHERN
    VIRGINIA AND SAID WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING WITH MY LIFE?
    I'M 57. I SHOULD BE HOME SLEEPING,
    RIGHT? I WAS OUT THERE CANVASSING WITH
    KATHY. THEY SAID SHE COULDN'T WIN THAT
    SEAT. SHE WAS THE FIRST ASIAN FEMALE
    TO WIN THAT SEAT. GRASSROOTS DEMOCRATS ARE TAKING
    BACK THE PARTY AND THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE BACK THE COUNTRY NEXT
    YEAR. 5% INCREASE IN TURNOUT, THE BIG
    ISSUE FOR DEMOCRATS IN OFFSEASON ELECTION, TURNOUT, TURNOUT,
    TURNOUT. THEY INVESTED IN DOWN BALLOT
    RACES. >> HOW MUCH WAS THIS, DONNA,
    ABOUT DONALD TRUMP? YES, PEOPLE WERE ORGANIZED, YES,
    PEOPLE TURNED OUT. WAS THIS ABOUT DONALD TRUMP?
    >> YES. HE IS GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT
    UNTIL 2020 UNLESS SOMETHING HAPPENS.
    PEOPLE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF HIS DIVISIVE POLITICS.
    >> THEY'RE SICK AND TIRED OF DIVISIVE POLITICS AND HAVE BEEN.
    I THINK THIS SAY WHOLE NEW LEVEL WITH TRUMP.
    I THINK PEOPLE ARE SCARED. >> YES, I AGREE.
    DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION. WHEN YOU SEE A BLACK WOMAN
    WINNING A MAYORAL SEAT IN CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA, WHEN
    YOU SEE THE KIND OF SUPPORT AND TURNOUT IN MAINE.
    THE 89,000 PEOPLE WILL HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE.
    THIS IS THE FUTURE. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE SUBURBAN
    COUNTY IN PENNSYLVANIA. THE FUTURE OF THE DEMOCRATIC
    PARTY. GRASSROOTS POLITICS INVESTED ALL
    ACROSS THE COUNTRY. ALABAMA COMING UP DECEMBER 12th.
    WE HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL THESE OTHER SPECIAL ELECTIONS AND
    CONTINUE TO INVEST IN THESE KEY RACE.
    >> LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BOOK.
    I'LL GO FIRST. HOW DID THIS ALL START?
    LAST WEEK WITH THE POLITICO PIECE THAT EXPLODED ONLINE AND
    GOT PICKED UP ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
    IN IT YOU WROTE, IN PART, I PROMISED BERIE WHEN I TOOK THE
    HELM OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE AFTER THE CONVENTION I
    WOULD GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHETHER HILLARY CLINTON'S TEAM
    HAD RIGGED THE NOMINATION PROCESS A CACHE OF E-MAILS
    STOLEN BY RUSSIAN HACKERS AND POSTED ONLINE HAD SUGGESTED.
    I NEEDED TO HAVE SOLID PROOF BY SEPTEMBER 7th I HAD FOUND MY
    PROOF AND IT BROKE MY HEART. YOU SAID SINCE THAT YOU NEVER
    SAID THAT THE PROCESS WAS RIGGED.
    BUT IF YOU READ THAT, THE PREMISE IS THAT YOU WENT OUT TO
    LOOK AND SEE IF IT WAS RIGGED. >> YEAH.
    >> AND LATER IN THAT PARAGRAPH YOU SAY I FOUND MY PROOF.
    DID YOU NOT FIND YOUR PROOF THAT THE PROCESS WAS RIGGED?
    >> WHAT I FOUND AND WHAT I SAID IN THE BOOK, AND I STAND BY WHAT
    I WROTE IN THE BOOK. AUGUST 19th, THE NIGHT THAT
    DONALD TRUMP SAID WHAT THE HELL DO YOU ALL HAVE TO LOSE?
    I WAS SO ANGRY. FIRST OF ALL, HE WAS COMING AT
    THE BLACK FOLK. HE WAS COMING AT THE DEMOCRATIC
    PARTY. AND I WANTED TO FIGHT BACK.
    ALL I COULD DO WAS WRITE A COLUMN.
    WHAT THE HELL? I NEED TO DO MORE THAN WRITE A
    COLUMN. I NEED TO SPEND SOME MONEY.
    DONALD TRUMP IS TRYING TO REACH THOSE VOTERS THAT WE NEED TO WIN
    ON ELECTION DAY. WHEN I WAS TOLD THAT THERE WAS
    NO MONEY I'M LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE.
    I'M THE CHAIR. I'M RAISING MONEY.
    THAT'S WHEN I FOUND THIS JOINT FUND-RAISING AGREEMENT.
    BUT THE ADDENDUM, THAT DISTURBED ME.
    I'M AN OFFICER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
    I'M NO LONGER AN OFFICER I KNOW Y'ALL ARE HAPPY.
    I GOT THE DANCE PARTY GOING ON. I FOUND THIS AND IT DISTURBED
    ME. IT MADE ME MAD BECAUSE I DIDN'T
    KNOW. I WAS AN OFFICER AND DIDN'T KNOW
    THERE WAS A SEPARATE MEMORANDUM. I FELT OBLIGATED TO GO BACK TO
    BERNIE. I PROMISED BERNIE AND HIS
    SUPPORTERS -- REMEMBER, I WAS ON MY APOLOGY TOUR THE DAY I BECAME
    CHAIR. I SUPPOSE I'M STILL ON AN
    APOLOGY TOUR. I WENT BACK AND TOLD BERNIE I
    FOUND WHAT YOU WANTED ME TO FIND.
    IT'S A CANCER. THE PROCESS WAS NOT RIGGED.
    I HAD TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO HIM, I FOUND THE CANCER.
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT BERNIE DID AFTER WE TALKED ABOUT IT?
    HE SAID MADAM CHAIR, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE POLLS?
    I SAID HONEY, I DON'T TRUST NO POLLS.
    I'M AFRAID THERE'S NEW ENTHUSIASM.
    >> DO YOU REGRET USING THE WORD "RIGGED" THEN?
    IT'S A LOADED TERM. >> YEAH.
    >> IT SUGGESTS THAT THE PROCESS WAS WEIGHTED TOWARD ONE
    CANDIDATE OVER ANOTHER. >> I LEARNED THE HARD WAY.
    I HAD TO GO OUT THERE ON TWITTER AND I HAD TO PUT I DID NOT SAY
    THE PROCESS WAS RIGGED. I SAID I WENT TO FIND OUT.
    >> BUT THEN YOU CAME BACK AND CALLED BERNIE AFTER YOU FOUND
    YOUR PROOF, PROOF -- >> THAT THERE WAS CANCER.
    >> BUT YOU SAID PROOF OF IT BEING RIGGED IN THE PIECE.
    >> NO. WILLIE, I GOT TO SHOW YOU -- I
    SAID I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHETHER OR NOT HILLARY'S TEAM
    HAD RIGGED THE PARTY PROCESS IN HER FAVOR AND THEN I WENT BACK
    AND I SAID BY SEPTEMBER 7th I FOUND -- THE DAY I WAS MAKING
    THIS CALL TO BERNIE, I HAD FOUND MY PROOF AND WHAT I HAD FOUND
    BROKE MY HEART. I THOUGHT THE PARTY I HAD GIVEN
    SO MUCH OF MY LIFE TO WAS BETTER THAN THIS.
    >> WHAT DID YOU FIND PROOF OF? >> THE CANCER.
    THE CANCER WAS THAT THE DNC HAD SIGNED THE -- THE STAFF OF THE
    DNC, NOT AN OFFICER. DEBBIE WAS THE STAFF, HAD SIGNED
    AN MEMORANDUM OF THE STAFF WITH THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN TO TAKE
    OVER CERTAIN DEPARTMENTS IN EXCHANGE FOR BAILING US OUT.
    ALSO I SAID IN THE BOOK THAT HILLARY BAILED US OUT.
    SHE PUT US ON A STARVATION DIET, THAT'S HILLARY, BUT SHE BAILED
    THE PARTY OUT. >> BUT THEN THIS AGREEMENT
    WAS -- OKAY LET'S SAY IT WASN'T RIGGED.
    >> IT WAS CANCEROUS. >> WHICH IS A BAD --
    >> BECAUSE IT STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY JOB.
    IT STOPPED ME FROM DOING MY JOB AS CHAIR.
    >> RIGHT. >> WILLIE, WHEN YOU'RE THE CHAIR
    OF THE PARTY, JUST LIKE WHEN YOU OWN ANYTHING, YOU OWN THE HOUSE,
    YOU GOT THE KEY, THE CHECKBOOK. I DIDN'T HAVE THE KEY OR THE
    CHECKBOOK. MEANWHILE, WE WERE BEING HACKED
    BY THE RUSSIANS. THEY WERE COMING AFTER US LIKE
    YOU KNOW WHAT. AND ALL I NEEDED WAS THE ABILITY
    TO RAISE MONEY AND TO FIGHT, BECAUSE I WANTED HILLARY TO WIN.
    I WANTED DEMOCRATS ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO WIN.
    I WANTED TO MOTIVATE AND ENERGIZE THIS PARTY BUT I HAD
    NO -- DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY TOLD ME?
    WE'LL GIVE YOU TWO MILLION. I SAID I NEED EIGHT.
    TWO. I WANT MY MONEY.
    I WANTED TO FIGHT. >> CLARIFY ONE THING BECAUSE I
    WANTED TO FIGHT. IN REACTION TO YOUR PIECE, THE
    CLINTON CAMPAIGN AND OTHER DEMOCRATS HAVE COME OUT AND SAID
    THIS JOINT FINANCIAL AGREEMENT THAT YOU'VE REFERRED TO WAS
    MEANT FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION, NOT FOR THE PRIMARY PROCESS.
    IN OTHER WORDS IT WOULDN'T HAVE RIGGED THE PRIMARY PROCESS.
    IT WAS MEANT TO DEFEAT -- LET ME CLARIFY WHAT THAT WAS FOR.
    >> FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY THIS FOR THE RECORD.
    I WAS AN UNPAID OFFICER FOR EIGHT YEARS.
    I TOOK THIS JOB, GIVEN UP EVERYTHING IN MY LIFE TO GO OVER
    THERE BECAUSE I WANTED HILLARY TO WIN.
    >> RIGHT. >> THE ATTACKS ON ME DON'T
    BOTHER ME. I'VE BEEN ATTACKED BY THE
    RUSSIAN AND THE CHINESE. I'M SO OVER PEOPLE TRYING TO
    THREATEN FOLKS. I SAID TO THEM POINT BLANK, STOP
    THIS. I NEED -- I AM A CHAIR OF THE
    PARTY. I REPORT TO THE OFFICERS AND
    RANK AND FILES OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
    I DID NOT REPORT TO THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN.
    DONNA BRAZILE, AS AN OFFICER OF THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL
    COMMITTEE, DID NOT REPORT TO THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN.
    I HAD NO FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITIES TO THEM.
    I HAD FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITIES TO MY PARTY.
    WHEN THE CHAIR OF THE PARTY CANNOT SIGN AN S.E.C. REPORT,
    THAT IS A CANCER. I AM A FIGHTER, BABY.
    >> WE KNOW YOU'RE A FIGHTER BUT I WANT CLARIFY.
    >> CLARIFY. >> WHAT'S THE FINANCIAL
    AGREEMENT FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION AS THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN
    HAS NOW CLAIMED OR WAS IT FOR THE PRIMARY PROCESS?
    >> IT WAS NOT UTILIZED. LET ME TELL YOU --
    >> GENERAL OR PRIMARY? >> SHE DOES NOT LIKE ME TO
    MENTION HER NAME. AMY I SAID YOUR NAME.
    AMY AND THE STAFF OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY MADE SURE NONE
    OF THOSE RESOURCES WENT FOR PRIMARY PURPOSES.
    AND I ALSO CHECKED ON THAT. YOU UNDERSTAND, I DID A
    FORENSIC -- I HAD NO -- WHAT DID I HAVE TO LOSE THAT THE POINT?
    I HAD ALREADY BEEN, YOU KNOW, BEATEN WITH THE HACKING.
    ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT.
    I WANTED TO CONVINCE BERNIE, WHO SAID HE WOULD GO OUT THERE AND
    CAMPAIGN, BERNIE WHO SAID HE WOULD RAISE MONEY, BERNIE WHO
    SENT STAFF OVER TO THE DNC. >> BERNIE, WHO COULD HAVE WON.
    >> WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT, MIKA.
    >> I'LL PUT MONEY ON THAT. >> SHE WON THREE OUT OF THE FOUR
    CONTESTS. I KNOW THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
    SHE WON THREE OUT OF FOUR. I THINK IF THE ELECTION WENT ON
    AND ON, HE WOULD HAVE CAUGHT UP BUT I DON'T KNOW IF HE COULD
    HAVE WON. >> WHY IS IT THAT YOU AND
    SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE, WHO I RESPECT GREATLY, COULD NOT GET
    TO THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN TWO, THREE WEEKS OUT BEFORE THE
    ELECTION WITH THE FACT THAT THEY WERE INCOMPETENT, THAT THEY WERE
    DEPENDING ON ALGORITHMS RATHER THAN COMMON SENSE, THAT THEY HAD
    NO SENSE OF SCHEDULING. WHY IS IT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE
    WERE EITHER MUTE, RELUCTANT OR UNABLE TO CRASH INTO THAT INNER
    CIRCLE AND TELL THEM YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?
    >> MIKE, EVERYBODY KNOWS -- MIKA, FORGIVE ME.
    I'M A LITTLE CATHOLIC GIRL. I CUSS AND GO TO CHURCH EVERY
    SUNDAY AND SAY BLESS ME, FATHER, FOR I HAVE SINNED.
    I TRY. IT WAS THEIR STRATEGY.
    IT WAS THEIR PLAN AND I SAID TO THEM, I UNDERSTAND.
    BUT I'M GOING TO COLORADO. I'M GOING TO FLORIDA.
    I'M IN PENNSYLVANIA. I'M IN THESE STATES.
    I WASN'T JUST SITTING IN WASHINGTON, D.C.
    YOU COULD NOT CRACK THEM. IF I WENT BACK AND SAID I NEED
    SOME POLLSTERS. I NEED PEOPLE CALLING ME IN
    LITTLE HAITI. THEY WANT SOME RADIO SPOTS.
    MADAM CHAIR, IT'S OKAY. IT WAS SO CON DESCENDING.
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT I DID, MIKA, LAST WEEK, BECAUSE I'M THIS KIND
    OF GIRL I WENT OVER AND TOLD ROBBY MY BOOK IS COMING OUT.
    I TEXT PEOPLE. I CALL THEM.
    I'M NOT SCARED. THE BOOK IS COMING OUT.
    IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE CONTROVERSIAL, LITTLE HOT,
    BECAUSE IT'S DRIPPING WITH HOT SAUCE.
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DID? THEY DID THE SAME THING THEY DID
    TO ME LAST YEAR. THEY DID THIS.
    SO I WANTED HILLARY TO WIN. I STILL -- ONE YEAR AGO, I'M
    SITTING HERE, SOMEWHERE IN MANHATTAN AND I'M HEARING FROM
    PEOPLE IN DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA.
    THEY'RE IN LINE. THE POLLS ARE NOT OPEN.
    THE MACHINES ARE DOWN. I'M KAUING UP TO THE HIGH
    COMMAND. WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM.
    WE'RE GOING TO FIX IT. THE NIGHT OF THE ELECTION, I'M
    STILL ON THE PHONE IN DETROIT. TURNOUT IS LOW.
    I'M STILL TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO TURN OUT.
    I'M STILL TRYING TO GET PEOPLE IN FLINT.
    DON'T MAKE ME CRY BECAUSE IT'S TOO EARLY TO CRY PAUSE I AIN'T
    GOT NOTHING THAT THIS MAN HAS IN HIS CUP.
    LET ME TELL YOU WHAT MADE ME SO MAD.
    WE NEVER HAD A CHANCE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T COMPETE IN PLACES
    WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T GET THE MESSAGE.
    IF THEY WOULD HAVE HEARD FROM THE CAMPAIGN, IF SOMEBODY WOULD
    HAVE SAID, MIKA, I NEED YOUR HELP.
    I NEED TO SAY ONE LAST THING. DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE RUSSIANS
    AND WHAT THEY DID. I CAN TELL THAT STORY THEY
    CORRUPTED OUR ENTIRE DATA. THEY CORRUPTED OUR DATA BANK,
    OUR FILES. THEY WERE IN OUR FILES UNTIL
    OCTOBER 21st. AND THEY WERE MEAN.
    THEY TOOK MORE THAN OUR E-MAILS. THEY WIPED OUT OUR FILES.
    I HAD TO MAKE A DECISION. >> SO, DONNA, I WANT TO GET DOWN
    TO THE CORE OF YOUR CRITICISM. I'M GOING TO USE YOUR WORD,
    CANCER. >> MY CRITIQUE.
    >> YOUR CRITIQUE. THE CANCER YOU DESCRIBE IT IN
    THE BOOK IS THE FINANCIAL AGREEMENT PUT IN PLACE BETWEEN
    THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN AND THE DNC.
    THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN HAS SAID THAT WAS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE
    GENERAL ELECTION. IT WAS THAT AN AGREEMENT ABOUT
    THE PRIMARY PROCESS OR JUST ABOUT THE GENERAL ELECTION?
    >> THE PAPER SAID THE GENERAL ELECTION.
    WHAT I FOUND WAS THAT THEY HAD ALREADY STARTED TO MAKE
    INVESTMENTS IN TECHNOLOGY, RESEARCH AND COMMUNICATIONS AND
    BY HIRING CONSULTANTS TO START DOING THAT, BY BEGINNING THE
    GENERAL ELECTION PROCESS BEFORE A NOMINEE IS CHOSEN, I FOUND
    THAT UNACCEPTABLE AND IN THE BOOK I USED THE WORD UNETHICAL.
    >> AND THAT PUT BERNIE SANDERS AT A DISADVANTAGE?
    >> I BELIEVE IT PUT THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS UNDER THE
    SPOTLIGHT. WHETHER YOU'RE MARTIN O'MALLEY,
    BERNIE SANDERS, LINCOLN CHAFFE OR JIM WEBB, THAT'S NOT FAIR.
    BUT HILLARY BAILED THE CAMPAIGN OUT -- THE CAMPAIGN.
    THE POLITICAL PARTY, THE DNC, WAS BROKE.
    >> WAS IT A FAIR FIGHT, YES OR NO?
    >> I BELIEVE IT WAS A FAIR FIGHT.
    ULTIMATELY THE VOTERS DECIDED. >> BETWEEN HILLARY AND BERNIE,
    IT WAS A FAIR FIGHT? >> NO SHALL IT WAS NOT.
    I WAS SEEING THAT IN REAL TIME. >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
    >> YOU SUGGESTED THAT THE FINANCIAL AGREEMENT GAVE HER AN
    ADVANTAGE. SO WAS IT A FAIR FIGHT IN.
    >> IT GAVE HER A STRATEGIC ADVANTAGE ON STARTING THE
    GENERAL ELECTION INTERNALLY IN TERMS OF PUTTING RESOURCES INTO,
    WHAT, INVESTIGATING DONALD TRUMP, DOING RESEARCH ON DONALD
    TRUMP. THAT'S WHAT I FOUND.
    WAS IT A FAIR FIGHT IN TERMS OF THE NEW YORK PRIMARY ON APRIL
    19th. >> NO.
    >> OR THE PENNSYLVANIA PRIMARY? YES.
    >> BUT, DONNA, I THINK THE ARROGANCE THE CAMPAIGN SHOWED
    YOU IS THE ARROGANCE THE CAMPAIGN -- IT WAS THE WAY THEY
    CONDUCTED THEMSELVES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PROCESS.
    AND DEBBIE WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ WAS NO HELP TO THIS PROCESS.
    JOE? >> YOU SAW IT TIME AND TIME
    AGAIN. IT WASN'T JUST PEOPLE ON TV
    TALKING ABOUT HOW HILLARY CLINTON'S TEAM WASN'T GETTING
    IT. YOU HAD BILL CLINTON BEING
    CONCERNED, WARNING THEM IN AUGUST.
    JOE BIDEN WARNING ANYBODY WHO WOULD LISTEN.
    YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE PENNSYLVANIA IF YOU GUYS DON'T
    START FIGURING OUT HOW TO RUN THERE MORE EFFECTIVELY.
    WE HAD ED RENDELL ON DURING THE DNC BASICALLY SAYING HILLARY WAS
    GOING TO LOSE PENNSYLVANIA. AND I'M JUST WONDERING, HOW DID
    THAT BUBBLE, DONNA? HOW DID THEY ENCASE THEMSELVES
    IN THAT BUBBLE IN BROCK LYNN THAT STOPPED THEM FROM LISTENING
    TO PEOPLE LIKE ED RENDELL, BILL
    CLINTON, YOU? DEMOCRATS WHO HAD A TRACK RECORD
    OF WINNING AND INSTEAD SAYING WE'RE JUST DOING ANALYTICS.
    WE DON'T NEED POLLS. WE'RE GOING TO GO TO IOWA.
    WE DON'T NEED TO GO UP TO MICHIGAN.
    WE'RE NOT GOING TO LOSE WISCONSIN.
    SHE DOESN'T NEED TO TRAVEL THERE.
    DONALD TRUMP IS PRESIDENT A YEAR LATER BECAUSE OF MISTAKES THAT
    THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN MADE, AS WELL AS JAMES COMEY, AS WELL AS
    THE RUSSIANS. I'LL PUT IT ALL IN THERE.
    BUT IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN A CLOSE RACE.
    >> I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT, JOE.
    >> BOTTOM LINE IT FOR US. WHY DID THEY LOSE?
    WAS IT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, ARROGANCE?
    >> YES, JOE. IT WAS A CULT I FELT LIKE IT WAS
    A CULT. YOU COULD NOT PENETRATE THEM.
    I MEAN, I -- LOOK, YOU CAN -- I'M A GRASSROOT ORGANIZER.
    I KNOW STREET POLITICS BETTER THAN I KNOW SWEET POLITICS.
    I KNOW HOW TO TOUCH PEOPLE WHERE THEY LIVE, WORK, PRAY AND PLAY.
    I CANNOT HELP A CANDIDATE, JOE, IF I DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES,
    IF I CANNOT SPEND THE RESOURCES THAT THE PARTY IS RAISING
    BECAUSE THERE'S A BLIND AGREEMENT BETWEEN --
    >> EXACTLY. >> -- A CAMPAIGN.
    >> UNSPOKEN EVEN. >> AND, AGAIN, I WANT MY PARTY
    TO COME BACK FROM THIS STRONGER. I LIKE WHAT TOM PEREZ IS DOING.
    I KNOW HE SAID THIS IS NOT ABOUT MY BOOK.
    BABY, I KNOW IT'S NOT ABOUT MY BOOK.
    IT'S ABOUT MAKING MUCH-NEEDED CHANGES AND REFORM INSIDE THE
    PARTY. I'VE SAT AT THE TABLE.
    I WANT TO MAKE ROOM FOR OTHERS TO SIT AT THE TABLE BUT YOU HAVE
    TO COME INTO THE ROOM KNOWING YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THE RECIPE.
    YESTERDAY WAS A WAKE-UP CALL FOR THE DEMOCRATS, TOO.
    IT'S COMING FROM THE BOTTOM UP. IT'S NOT TOP-DOWN ANYMORE.
    IT'S BOTTOM-UP POLITICS. >> AND, MIKA, WE CAN TALK ABOUT
    THIS AGREEMENT ALL WE WANT TO UNTIL, AS WE USED TO SAY, UNTIL
    THE COWS COME HOME. >> RIGHT.
    >> BUT YOU REMEMBER THE IOWA CAUCUSES?
    DO YOU REMEMBER THE DEMOCRATIC LEADER OUT IN IOWA WHO WAS A
    CLINTON SUPPORTER, RUSHING OUT TO CALL THE ELECTION AGAINST
    BERNIE SANDERS FOR HILLARY CLINTON?
    >> YES. >> DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE
    DEBATES WERE SCHEDULED, UP AGAINST NFL GAMES.
    DO YOU REMEMBER EVERY DECISION, LARGE AND SMALL.
    >> MEETINGS ON A SATURDAY. >> YEAH.
    IT WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO RIG THE PROCESS AGAINST BERNIE SANDERS.
    >> OUR WORD, NOT YOURS. >> WE CAN HAVE ALL THESE LEGAL
    ARGUMENTS, ALL THESE SEMANTIC ARGUMENTS, GO THROUGH ALL THESE
    MACHINATIONS BUT THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO STOP PRETENDING THIS
    DIDN'T HAPPEN WITH DEBBIE WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ EVERY STEP OF
    THE WAY. IF THEY DO THAT AND FACE THAT
    REALITY THEY'LL FACE 2018 A LITTLE BIT STRONGER.
    BUT, MAN, IT WAS RIGGED IN WAYS LARGE AND SMALL FROM DAY ONE.
    >> THE BOOK IS "HACKS: THE INSIDE STORY OF THE BREAKUPS AND
    BREAKDOWNS THAT PUT DONALD TRUMP IN THE WHITE HOUSE."
    DONNA BRAZILE, THANK YOU FOR BEING ON THE SHOW.
    >> THANK YOU, DONNA. APPRECIATE IT.
    >> I'M GOING TO SEE YOU AT
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